Negotiators from the NHL and the players' association made it into the same room to talk this time. They just didn't carry any meaningful progress out of it.
The NHL eliminated 16 more days from the regular-season schedule Monday, and if a deal with the players' association isn't reached soon the whole season could be lost.
Union chief Donald Fehr is sticking to his story that a deal with the NHL to end the four-month lockout was close before talks suddenly broke off this week.
Donald Fehr thought he and the hockey players he leads were close to a deal to save the season. The NHL said not so fast, and then took away everything that created all the optimism in the first place.
The tenor turned a bit after a second straight marathon day of NHL labor talks. Gone was some of the lightheartedness and rare optimism expressed about 24 hours earlier. Representatives of the league and the players both said Wednesday's long talks were "candid" and offered some sense of hope by announcing negotiations would resume later Thursday.
The best news on the 80th day of the NHL lockout was that hockey owners and players did most of their talking in front of each other instead of making public statements.